wow! this ng is ded!

[finding z0]

Hmmmmm......

[Fritz]

Shhhhht I'm sleeping

Post by finding z0
Hmmmmm......

[CJM]

Post by finding z0
Hmmmmm......

Sadly, this genre is dead.

[CJ]

Post by CJM
Sadly, this genre is dead.

Can't say I agree with that.

/CJ


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[CJM]

Post by CJ

Post by CJM
Sadly, this genre is dead.

Can't say I agree with that.

Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims that
have been released in the last couple of years...

We like to feel that we are a sizeable community but we are but a niche.
When I started gaming, everyone went through a phase of playing one or more
flight-sims... but there has been an entire generation of gamers that
haven't even set eyes on a real flight-sim, discounting HAWX and the arcady
ability to an aircraft briefly in Crysis or BF2 etc.

[Cronos]

Post by CJM
Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims
that have been released in the last couple of years...

The masses don't play flight sims so don't expect *popular* but here are
some quality flight sims released within last 2 years and worth buying:
Black Shark, Rise of Flight, Over Flanders Fields, Wings Over Israel,
Wings of Prey, X-Plane9, FSX, Space Shuttle Mission.

How many of those have you bought?

[CJ]

Post by CJM
Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims that
have been released in the last couple of years...

For me personally theres been DCS:BS and soon Flaming Cliffs 2.0,
later this year SoW:BoB will hopefully be released.

Post by CJM
We like to feel that we are a sizeable community but we are but a niche.
When I started gaming, everyone went through a phase of playing one or more
flight-sims... but there has been an entire generation of gamers that
haven't even set eyes on a real flight-sim, discounting HAWX and the arcady
ability to an aircraft briefly in Crysis or BF2 etc.

I agree that things was better for us flighsimmers 10+ years ago in
terms of released titles but it's not dead IMHO.

/CJ


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[CJM]

Post by CJ

Post by CJM
Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims that
have been released in the last couple of years...

For me personally theres been DCS:BS and soon Flaming Cliffs 2.0,
later this year SoW:BoB will hopefully be released.

Sure, there are one or two releases a year, but few gain any sort of
traction beyond so respect in our own circles.

The OP was lamenting the death of the NG; but the NG only reflects the
health of the genre. While I don't want the genre to go, in fact I'd rather
they tried to re-popularise the genre (but not Hawx-style), the fact is
there are fewer players and fewer (quality) games. I'm not sure which came
first, but it's a downward spiral.

Post by CJ
I agree that things was better for us flighsimmers 10+ years ago in
terms of released titles but it's not dead IMHO.

Not dead, but certainly at it's nadir... And I don't foresee any change -
the console brigade aren't going to jump ship any time soon.

[Scatter]

Post by CJM

Post by CJ

Post by CJM
Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims that
have been released in the last couple of years...

For me personally theres been DCS:BS and soon Flaming Cliffs 2.0,
later this year SoW:BoB will hopefully be released.

Sure, there are one or two releases a year, but few gain any sort of
traction beyond so respect in our own circles.

Something like Rise of Flight could be more mainstream if it were a
better game (especially multiplayer). Snap views that don't change
your zoom level, respawning options, join in play, a settings system
that doesn't suck, a decent mission editor, and TIR co-existing with
FFB in win7 64 would improve it no end (it is fun to fly though). I'm
also peeved that it doesn't have Snoopy's WW1 dog kennel (I'd pay for
that in a second).

I think that we need another Novalogic to increase the popularity of
the genre. Games that are easily accessable (including multiplayer, to
introduce pilots to one another and form communities) but not totally
unrealistic (let's see the return of the printed keyboard chart). I've
recently gotten back into Joint Operations which holds up okay to more
recent modern warfare games except for its A.I.(ballistics would be
nice too). In many ways it surpasses more modern games in enjoyment
factor. I'll probably get the Novalogic vehicles pack from steam soon.

Post by CJM
The OP was lamenting the death of the NG; but the NG only reflects the
health of the genre. While I don't want the genre to go, in fact I'd rather
they tried to re-popularise the genre (but not Hawx-style), the fact is
there are fewer players and fewer (quality) games. I'm not sure which came
first, but it's a downward spiral.

When sims only appeal to the hardcore you end up with a minority of
people playing. The reduction in playerbase plus the rise of websites
equals ...

Most gaming USENET groups are in decline though.

[Cronos]

Post by Scatter
I think that we need another Novalogic to increase the popularity of
the genre.

I owned a few Novalogic flight games and didn't think much of them to be
honest with you. Too arcade for me. If that is what you like though then
check these out, Wings of Prey especially.


http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-OAA2/operation-air-assault-2

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-WWIAOTS/wwi-aces-of-the-sky

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-WOP/wings-of-prey

[Scatter]

Post by Cronos
I owned a few Novalogic flight games and didn't think much of them to be
honest with you. Too arcade for me. If that is what you like though then
check these out, Wings of Prey especially.

Cheers for that,
I'm not neccesarily a huge fan of their sims either (Black Shark and RoF
are closer to my normal fare) but I think we need more intermediate
games to get people interested (and I like trying older sims/games
that I never played at release anyway).

Also for me, a decent multiplayer experience can easily make up for
what can be seen by many as "dumbing down". It's one of the reasons
that I've stayed a member of a virtual squadron for many years.

[Cronos]

Post by Scatter
Cheers for that,
I'm not neccesarily a huge fan of their sims either (Black Shark and RoF
are closer to my normal fare) but I think we need more intermediate
games to get people interested (and I like trying older sims/games
that I never played at release anyway).
Also for me, a decent multiplayer experience can easily make up for
what can be seen by many as "dumbing down". It's one of the reasons
that I've stayed a member of a virtual squadron for many years.

Thirdwire sims are all medium core. You have all of those?

http://www.thirdwire.com/

I see far more arcade flight sims being released than hardcore so have
to disagree with your synopsis. Anyway, that Wings of Prey is exactly
what you desire so I expect you to tell me you went and bought it and
give your opinion on it.

[Scatter]

Post by Cronos
Thirdwire sims are all medium core. You have all of those?

All except wings over Vietnam - I always wished that TK would do
proper multiplayer as it'd make a top series for co-op (PvP is always
dodgy in a moddable sim).

Post by Cronos
I see far more arcade flight sims being released than hardcore so have
to disagree with your synopsis.

I'm not advocating more arcade stuff - more like the sims that we had
in the 90's (games like Gunship 2000, F117, EF2000). The gameplay was
considered much more important than having every switch right. Perhaps
Novalogic wasn't the best choice but I've recently been playing Joint
Operations which as an online tactical shooter plays better than ArmA2
and OFP2 in some ways (it's let down by A.I. and ballistics though).
It's got me interested enough to try their vehicles pack on steam.

Anyway, that Wings of Prey is exactly

Post by Cronos
what you desire so I expect you to tell me you went and bought it and
give your opinion on it.

I might just do that (from reviews it does look like a nice crossover
game/sim) - although comments on the multiplayer are a
cause for concern. I wonder if the PC version is out in local stores
or if it'll have to be an online purchase. I'll investigate.

Thanks

[Cronos]

Post by Scatter
I'm not advocating more arcade stuff - more like the sims that we had
in the 90's (games like Gunship 2000, F117, EF2000). The gameplay was
considered much more important than having every switch right. Perhaps
Novalogic wasn't the best choice but I've recently been playing Joint
Operations which as an online tactical shooter plays better than ArmA2
and OFP2 in some ways (it's let down by A.I. and ballistics though).
It's got me interested enough to try their vehicles pack on steam.

I've already played that series to death years ago and the reboot
version showed it's age so not intertested in it any more. Whatever
happened to Novalogic's next game in the series called Angle Falls? That
I am interested in but it seems Novalogic sat on their asses for too
long and have now screwed themselves over because they have vey little
income coming in from their older games.

Post by Scatter
I might just do that (from reviews it does look like a nice crossover
game/sim) - although comments on the multiplayer are a
cause for concern. I wonder if the PC version is out in local stores
or if it'll have to be an online purchase. I'll investigate.

It's on Steam and GamersGate, and at their own online store. I suggest
the GamersGate version because it is 10% off and GG doesn't require a
client to play them like Steam has.

[Scatter]

Post by Cronos
I've already played that series to death years ago and the reboot
version showed it's age so not intertested in it any more. Whatever
happened to Novalogic's next game in the series called Angle Falls? That
I am interested in but it seems Novalogic sat on their asses for too
long and have now screwed themselves over because they have vey little
income coming in from their older games.

Nova is pretty much a dead duck - as you say they stopped doing stuff
and the world passed them by. I'm amazed that they still exist in any
form.

BTW I downloaded the Wings Of Prey demo and with the realistic
settings on I'm reasonably impressed with it except for the
overprocessed, desaturated graphics that seem so popular these days.
It's got great TIR support and seems to not suffer from what turned me
off the IL2 series - awful ground object popup which was a serious
problem on ground attack missions with the target not becoming visible
until you're on the attack run.

Unfortunately the demo has no multiplayer component so I can't test
that out. A squad mate bought the full package so hopefully he'll be
able to try that out and say how well it works. If it gets his thumbs
up I'll buy a copy.

A group of us have recently been giving Rise of Flight a good go
online and have been enjoying it. It really needs "Join in Progress"
and respawning options to make it a practical multiplayer experience
though. Rumours are that NeoQ are working on these very aspects -
here's hoping.

[Boris Badenov]

Post by Scatter
BTW I downloaded the Wings Of Prey demo and with the realistic
settings on I'm reasonably impressed with it except for the
overprocessed, desaturated graphics that seem so popular these days.
It's got great TIR support and seems to not suffer from what turned me
off the IL2 series - awful ground object popup which was a serious
problem on ground attack missions with the target not becoming visible
until you're on the attack run.

Can you view your plane from external view in sim mode now? I read that
you can't and I like being able to do that because part of the fun of
fun of sims is being able to admire your pretty plane. I will buy it
when I see it on sale but not before.

Post by Scatter
A group of us have recently been giving Rise of Flight a good go
online and have been enjoying it. It really needs "Join in Progress"
and respawning options to make it a practical multiplayer experience
though. Rumours are that NeoQ are working on these very aspects -
here's hoping.

I have RoF and have never even tried it MP yet.

[Bobzilla]

Post by CJ

Post by CJM
Feel free to dazzle me with a list of new, popular, quality flight-sims that
have been released in the last couple of years...

For me personally theres been DCS:BS and soon Flaming Cliffs 2.0,
later this year SoW:BoB will hopefully be released.

Hey, I've got Su-27 v1.5 on my disk right now!

As to the lack of activity in this newsgroup I think it is a reflection of
the near death
of UseNet. Many of the Unix groups are also mostly dead now days. What a
shame!
UseNet was such a great way to discuss issues and share information. I find
it so much
better than web hosted forums. I'm afraid there is an entire generation of
computer users
that don't know that UseNet exists or what it ever was. :-(

[CJ]

Post by Bobzilla
As to the lack of activity in this newsgroup I think it is a reflection of
the near death of UseNet.

Jepp, thats also what I think happens.

Post by Bobzilla
Many of the Unix groups are also mostly dead now days. What a shame! UseNet
was such a great way to discuss issues and share information. I find it so
much better than web hosted forums. I'm afraid there is an entire generation
of computer users that don't know that UseNet exists or what it ever was. :-(

Hosted forums have pro's and con's, the worst thing is that it's now
"decentrialized" and you have to know the good/best forum out of all
the 100's (or 1000's) flightsim forums that exists... I miss the
old UseNet as well... sure sign that we are gettin old I guess :)

/CJ


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[Cronos]

Post by CJ
Hosted forums have pro's and con's, the worst thing is that it's now
"decentrialized" and you have to know the good/best forum out of all
the 100's (or 1000's) flightsim forums that exists... I miss the
old UseNet as well... sure sign that we are gettin old I guess :)
/CJ

The worst thing about web forums are the asshole mods that impede my
right to free speech. Some mods are ok but some of them I want to punch
their fucking lights out. They remind me of the prick little kids who
always wanted to be hall monitors back in the UK. Probably the same
little shits that in the future end up becoming our politicians. ;)

[Darren]

Post by Cronos
The worst thing about web forums are the asshole mods that impede my
right to free speech. Some mods are ok but some of them I want to punch
their fucking lights out. They remind me of the prick little kids who
always wanted to be hall monitors back in the UK. Probably the same
little shits that in the future end up becoming our politicians. ;)

If you are refering to the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,
that does not "guarentee you the right to free speech" as many people
assume. It only lays out what the U.S. Government can do when you speak.
And only the U.S. Government. Not moderators on web forums, or managers
in restaurants, your Commanding Officer or your boss at work. You DO NOT
have the right to say *anything* you want *anywhere* you please.

If you are critisizing the U.S. Government or it's officers, they can't
prosecute you. If, however, you yell FIRE! in a theater and 27 people are
killed in the panic you caused, you *CAN* be prosecuted for murder.

And also, if you're on a web forum dedicated to Flight-sims and military
aircraft, you *CAN* and will be censored if you post 14 megs of religeous
propaganda or conspiracy theories or anything the moderator deems "off
topic".

Live with it. The First Amendment *does not* protect you from private
concerns. Only from the government. And only the U.S. Government at that.
And it does not protect you outside the borders of the United States. If
you go to Iran and yell "ALLAH SUCKS" in a crowded public place, you'll
get exactly what you deserve.

[Cronos]

Post by Darren
If you are refering to the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,
that does not "guarentee you the right to free speech" as many people
assume.
Live with it. The First Amendment *does not* protect you from private
concerns.

Live with this: Why do you assume I live in the U.S. you dumb fuck? Your
U.S. Constitution means jack shit where I live. I was referring to my
rights set by my own standards. Some twat mod threatening to ban me for
using the word 'bollocks' on a forum needs to have their fucking lights
punched out. I bow down to no little Hitlers of the world. Got it?

[Darren]

Post by Cronos
Live with this: Why do you assume I live in the U.S. you dumb fuck? Your
U.S. Constitution means jack shit where I live. I was referring to my
rights set by my own standards. Some twat mod threatening to ban me for
using the word 'bollocks' on a forum needs to have their fucking lights
punched out. I bow down to no little Hitlers of the world. Got it?

Sure, whatever man. I didn't assume you live in the U.S. and that was my
point. If you're in the UK you don't even have a Constitution. The Magna
Carta is about the close you'll get to something defining "rights" for you
there.

But again, your "rights set by your own standards" are protected by nothing,
and no laws. If you log onto my server, or walk into my house, you will abide
by MY laws and rules whether you like it or not. NOTHING will change that
however you feel about it.

So uh, I'm afraid that every "little Hitler" that moderates a forum owned or
operated by him will always have the power and the ability to edit, censor or
ban you from that forum whether you like it or not.

Bummer for you, huh? Look I'm not trying to push your buttons or make you angry,
I'm merely stating what is reality. These forums you log onto ALL have you agree
to rules and conditions when you register. If you violate them, things will
happen. No surprise there is there?

[Cronos]

Post by Darren
Bummer for you, huh? Look I'm not trying to push your buttons or make you angry,
I'm merely stating what is reality. These forums you log onto ALL have you agree
to rules and conditions when you register. If you violate them, things will
happen. No surprise there is there?

I am well aware of that fact but it just pisses me off that people are
willing to allow the little Hitlers to dictate to them were as I am not.
A web forum is not someone's house either so fuck their rules. I have
been banned by some forums many times and I just defeat their bans and
prove to them that their banning is a futile exercise in stupidity.

I live in Canada and we have The Charter of Rights which actually has
more rights granted to me than your out of date Constitution. The Magna
Carter was the beginning of rights granted to everyone in GB but I am
sure they have something more drawn up since then.

I am looking at this subject from a moral standpoint and not legal
standpoint so the Constitution is irrelevant as far as I am concerned.
Threatening to ban someone for using a word like bollocks is just plain
wrong and acting like a shitty web forum is your own personal Kingdom is
wrong. That explains why there will always be a Usenet for people like
me who do not Kowtow to their BS. Here I can say almost anything I want,
much to the chagrin of some people. If they don't like what I say here
they can go join a web forum for pussies. Even on youtube I can say
anything I want and no one threatens to ban me for it.

[CJM]

Post by Darren
Bummer for you, huh? Look I'm not trying to push your buttons or make you angry,

Cronos was born angry. Do worry about it.

[Cronos]

Post by CJM
Cronos was born angry. Do worry about it.

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CriticalMass]

Post by Darren
I'm merely stating what is reality. These forums you log onto ALL have you agree
to rules and conditions when you register. If you violate them, things will
happen. No surprise there is there?

I think you know exactly what the other guy, who I agree with, is
saying. You're just trying to be obtuse and argumentative, and you're
not making your point with any credibility.

The "rules and conditions" of those forums make no mention whatsoever of
specific words or phrases that will result in censorship, nor do they
discuss arbitrary "tones" in message language that will also result in
censorship. These twithead "moderators" act with total impunity and
invoke censorship whenever the mood strikes them. I've personally
ceased participating on at least two such forums on the basis I simply
won't tolerate being censored for what I consider proper, appropriate
and normal posts.

There's a huge amount of pointless, off topic, irrelevant, and often
simply inaccurate stuff being posted on the internet on a daily basis.
Having one's post deleted for simply telling it like it is and calling a
spade a spade is inexcusable and intolerable IMO, and I won't deal with it.

[Cronos]

Post by Bobzilla
As to the lack of activity in this newsgroup I think it is a reflection
of the near death
of UseNet. Many of the Unix groups are also mostly dead now days. What a
shame!
UseNet was such a great way to discuss issues and share information. I
find it so much
better than web hosted forums. I'm afraid there is an entire generation
of computer users
that don't know that UseNet exists or what it ever was. :-(

For discussion it is dying but for file downloaders it is just as
vibrant as ever. Usenet will never die for that reason alone.

[rochrist]

Post by Cronos

Post by Bobzilla
As to the lack of activity in this newsgroup I think it is a
reflection of the near death
of UseNet. Many of the Unix groups are also mostly dead now days. What
a shame!
UseNet was such a great way to discuss issues and share information. I
find it so much
better than web hosted forums. I'm afraid there is an entire
generation of computer users
that don't know that UseNet exists or what it ever was. :-(

For discussion it is dying but for file downloaders it is just as
vibrant as ever. Usenet will never die for that reason alone.

Right. You don't even know how usenet works, do you?

[Cronos]

Post by rochrist
Right. You don't even know how usenet works, do you?

Sure I do. And your point is? Get a real Usenet server that you pay for
if you want to see what I am talking about.

[rochrist]

Post by Cronos

Post by rochrist
Right. You don't even know how usenet works, do you?

Sure I do. And your point is? Get a real Usenet server that you pay for
if you want to see what I am talking about.

My point is that if ISPs aren't propagating newsfeeds, there is no
usenet. ISPs are not going to continue to propagate newsfeeds just to
satisfy the binary newsgroup crowd.

[Cronos]

Post by rochrist
My point is that if ISPs aren't propagating newsfeeds, there is no
usenet. ISPs are not going to continue to propagate newsfeeds just to
satisfy the binary newsgroup crowd.

You are forgetting all of the 3rd party newsfeeds. ISPs usually buy
their feeds from them and they are not going to let their lucrative
business get killed any time soon.

[CJ]

Post by rochrist
My point is that if ISPs aren't propagating newsfeeds, there is no
usenet. ISPs are not going to continue to propagate newsfeeds just to
satisfy the binary newsgroup crowd.

Thats exactly what happend for me, my ISP (one of the biggest in my
country) dropped their Newsfeed at the beginning of this year.

/CJ


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[Cronos]

Post by CJ
Thats exactly what happend for me, my ISP (one of the biggest in my
country) dropped their Newsfeed at the beginning of this year.

My ISP says they will do the same eventually too but ISPs do not usually
provide the feeds and companies like Supernews do. If all the ISPs stop
providing access doesn't mean there will be no Usenet, you just get a
pay for account with a company like Astraweb.

[rochrist]

Post by Cronos

Post by CJ
Thats exactly what happend for me, my ISP (one of the biggest in my
country) dropped their Newsfeed at the beginning of this year.

My ISP says they will do the same eventually too but ISPs do not usually
provide the feeds and companies like Supernews do. If all the ISPs stop
providing access doesn't mean there will be no Usenet, you just get a
pay for account with a company like Astraweb.

If none of the ISPs are propagating news feeds, there won't be anybody
to post. Thats where Atraweb and the others get the content they sell
you. usenet is nowhere near popular enough to sustain itself via pay
accounts and there certainly won't be much content left after ISPs drop
it as a standard feature.

[Cronos]

Post by rochrist
If none of the ISPs are propagating news feeds, there won't be anybody
to post. Thats where Atraweb and the others get the content they sell
you. usenet is nowhere near popular enough to sustain itself via pay
accounts and there certainly won't be much content left after ISPs drop
it as a standard feature.

Most ISPs already have dropped it as a standard feature, no?

[CJ]

If all the ISPs stop providing access doesn't mean there will
be no Usenet, you just get a pay for account with a company like Astraweb.

It may not wanish but if regular ISP's drops their access to Usenet
the user count will plummet even more. I don't think many want to pay
extra just to chat here (I'm not talking about binary groups here, I
don't use them and never will).

/CJ


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[The Bum B. Nose]

Post by CJ

If all the ISPs stop providing access doesn't mean there will
be no Usenet, you just get a pay for account with a company like Astraweb.

I would suggest unto you that most ISPs did drop Usenet and have been
pushing the Web for a long time. However! That said, there are some
ISPs, like the one I'm with, that offer Astraweb at no extra charge,
except that any downloads chew up your monthly quota, which is
perfectly reasonable.

Post by CJ
It may not wanish but if regular ISP's drops their access to Usenet
the user count will plummet even more. I don't think many want to pay
extra just to chat here (I'm not talking about binary groups here, I
don't use them and never will).
/CJ

Many years ago (decades), I used to frequent this news group via a BBS
as personal access could only be gained via the likes of Compuswerve
for the paltry fee of around $25/hr at a blistering speed of 14,000
baud or less; not sure what that equates to in bits per second.

I remember that back then the majority of posters were of the
"egg-head" variety with giant egos and reputations to protect, so
massive mind wars used to rage on many of the groups, and the content
was of a very high standard. I actually learned to think a bit more
logically as a result of reading those wonderfully entertaining
exchanges.

Back then Usenet WAS the Internet. But now, the unwashed masses have
moved in, overwhelmed all the egg-heads who fled in horror at the
uncouth behavior and flagrant disregard of Usenet protocol
(Netiquette), until Usenet became a mere stub of its former self, and
I believe, is on its last legs, which I find very sad.

To be honest, I'm not sure why, but back then, many software
manufacturers were putting out flight sims, and nearly every one who
had a PC also owned at least one such game. Maybe because back then,
the majority of people who owned a PC were not of the mainstream ilk,
unlike today.

Although this has little to do with flight sims, I still don't
understand why you need a games console if you already own a computer.
It seems some what redundant.

I must be getting old.

The Bum B. Nose